Excerpts from the Computer Discussion E-CONFWith all the laptop hoopla we've been printing, we thought this would be an appropriate addition. These are snippets from recent conversations in an electronic conference drawer. (Those of you who still bow to MUSIC know what we're talking about.) If you *don't* know what we're talking about, next time you sign on to MUSIC type E-CONF and then choose a topic.
>:::The following added 1999/11/10 14:48 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! I found a better way to back up my files. I e-mailed them all to hotmail. This works to satisfy 2 things. 1-it's a backup. 2-it proves I've written it by a certain date, so it satisfies copyright laws. Now, about a day after I transfered all my files back to Lydia, hotmail did a data purge. So now I have to transfer everything back to hotmail for the back up. All the copyrights are all on a later date now, but that doesn't bother me too much. It's just a waste of time to do this all the time. It would be even worse if both had gone kaplooey ont he same day and I had to re type everything from paper. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 16:03 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing That's a good story. I wish I had read it before I talked to the reporter from the NorthWind. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 16:37 by SSIMULA >:: jesse ventura for president in 2000 Its funny cause everyone feels like they can diss someone who didn't accidentally backup their file the only problem is: it still doesn't explain what happened. Or as a computer T.A. put it more bluntly: "It's an embarrassment to the university." Gee that's nothing new. I'm so glad I didn't attend anywhere but NMU......naturally. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 16:54 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing I will relay these comments to the decision makers. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 17:11 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo A fool by any other name... I've never met anyone who Accidentally backed up their files. How does that work. You're sitting at the computer one day and Ooops, the file you were dragging to the trash bin accidentally falls into your lydia account. Backing up files is a very deliberate act. People do it because they feel that they may have need of those files in the future and want to make sure that they have an extra copy. If they don't think ahead, or if they decide that a back up isn't necessary, then they have no reason to complain and are open to dissing if they start. Of couse, that's just my opinion... >:::The following added 1999/11/10 17:22 by PNIEDERE >:: Otaku Kamoko--Not afraid of the Shadowlands. Just ask Yogo Junzo. I reccommend three copies. That way if your family and NMU decide to "get your files" you still have a third copy. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 21:40 by PNIEDERE >:: Otaku Kamoko--Not afraid of the Shadowlands. Just ask Yogo Junzo. Three backups. Yes. Look how close Eric came to losing two backups. >:::The following added 1999/11/10 21:22 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo A fool by any other name... Another thing to keep in mind is that once you have a backup copy of something that you think is important enough to make a backup of in the first place, you can't just throw the disk in a drawer someplace and just expect it to be there when you need it. If it's really important, you should go back and check to make sure it hasn't been deleted, corrupted, or eaten by your dog. That way, if the backup goes bad, you have a chance to re-back it up again before you actually need it... >:::The following added 1999/11/10 21:40 by PNIEDERE >:: Otaku Kamoko--Not afraid of the Shadowlands. Just ask Yogo Junzo. Or there is that ancient format known as the hard copy. This is also a good way to make sure you don't lose things.... just hit that little print icon, and you are all set. >:::The following added 1999/11/11 09:18 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing According to my boss, 138 students paid the fee by last Friday's deadline to get a Thinkpad in January. Several people have come in this week asking to be put on a waiting list. There is a web link for the waiting list: http://www.acs.nmu.edu/laptop/laptop_signup.html >:::The following added 1999/11/11 11:45 by PNIEDERE >:: Otaku Kamoko--Not afraid of the Shadowlands. Just ask Yogo Junzo. Uh oh Eric, looks like the line is forming in the wrong direction.... >:::The following added 1999/11/11 16:33 by SSIMULA >:: jesse ventura for president in 2000 Accidentally backup a file was a typo. Sorry Mr. I love TLC. >:::The following added 1999/11/11 18:51 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo A fool by any other name... And on what information, exactly, do you derive the opinion that I love TLC? I personally couldn't give a damn less. I'm a senior, I have a laptop that exceeds the specifications (both hardware and software) of the machines that are being given out by Northern, and I'm filing for an exemption. I really don't see how some people can be so quick to make assumptions that inevitably make them look so stupid. Oh wait, I'm used to dealing with people who, more often than not, think before they talk.(or type) Maybe that's where I went wrong. Please forgive my ignorance... >:::The following added 1999/11/13 12:29 by SSIMULA >:: jesse ventura for president in 2000 Well i was only kidding. :) Who's talking before they type now? >:::The following added 1999/11/14 16:31 by EKUHNLE >:: Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the gene pool......... me >:::The following added 1999/11/16 16:50 by SSIMULA >:: jesse ventura for president in 2000 me tarzan >:::The following added 1999/12/06 15:17 by EKUHNLE >:: The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously me not jane, that's for friggin sure >:::The following added 1999/12/06 16:12 by PNIEDERE >:: Dear Lord, please bring back I'll Be Bangin' So many days without any useless whining. Good to see... >:::The following added 1999/12/06 16:22 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo A fool by any other name... So nice of you to put an end to a good thing... >:::The following added 1999/12/06 22:41 by PNIEDERE >:: Dear Lord, please bring back I'll Be Bangin' I'm not complaining about anything. I was commending this drawer for getting sensible. >:::The following added 2000/01/06 16:06 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! "Tree or server could not be located" I love this place >:::The following added 2000/01/06 17:34 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing And it loves you. Has your problem been taken resolved? Or aren't you complaining on your own behalf? >:::The following added 2000/01/07 17:03 by PNIEDERE >:: "Et tu Brute?--Then fall Caesar" -Julius Caesar Act III, Scene I I guess it couldn't last forever... >:::The following added 2000/01/08 18:11 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing The main lab server, LRC-Class, a Netware 5 server, had its "Netware 3" emulation removed temporarily over the break. It is an old protocol that will be removed permanently over summer. Computers configured to use the old protocol will have to be updated. If you had a problem attaching to LRC-Class over break:
>:::The following added 2000/01/10 11:39 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! all better now thanx. right now I'm watching some jackass film what i can only asume to be pro-administration propaganda, as nicky boy is involved. So they have these powerful lights you would expect to see in a portrait studio, which is way more than you need for video, and this camera guy is taking about 10 minutes to frame up a shot, hmmmm, if it were not entirely against my nature i'd offer assistance, but if nmu looks bad due to poor video, good. >:::The following added 2000/02/24 19:18 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody like my aura, please Oh, this is the best thing yet. <read sarcasm here>. If you are eligable for the waiver, you give up all rights to any university support of any kind. If you have trouble dialing in to nmu's dial in PPP, well, that's too bad. If you don't get one of Northerns computers, you just have to figure it out on your own. According to the Northwind, if you sign the waiver, you can't even get access to the remaining computer lab, even if you want to pay. By signing the waiver, you are stateing that you can meet all of your computer needs and that's that. What? You say your hard drive crashed and you've got a paper due tomorrow? I sure hope you have a friend that can help you out, because Northern doesn't care. It's one of those What have you done for me lately kinds of things with this university. Sure, we've been paying tuition, tech fees, activity fee's and god knows what else for the last 3 or 4 years, but because we choose not to buy into their new tech trend, we're totally cut off. Good luck everyone and graduate as quickly as you can... >:::The following added 2000/02/24 20:36 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing I didn't read the Northwind article (waiting for it to come out on the web) but from what I've heard, the "remaining lab" is precisely for people who sign the waiver and discover OOPS, they CAN'T meet their computing needs on their own. In other words, the last half of the preceeding rant is based on somebody's misconception. People who don't get with the TLC program are asking for problems. The waiver makes the rules clear: if you have a problem with an NMU-issued computer, it is NMU's problem. If you have a problem with your own personal computer, it's your own personal problem. Otherwise, there simply wouldn't be enough staff. >:::The following added 2000/02/24 22:13 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! Ok, after reading the North Wind article, I see that what Dan had said is right. To quote it directly, " Students will have to pay a fee to use the all purpose labs. If they waiver, they are saying that they have a computer to use." (Ed Niemi). "If you waiver the TLC program, you also waiver your rights to the all-purpose computer labs." (North Wind). "Students who waiver out of the TLC program will not be able to receive NMU tech support." (North Wind). What is this? I guess if we don't cough up $485 a semester, then we can't receive the same access to computer labs (LRC, etc.) or to tech suport that we receive now. Why is this the case? Why is it that TLC gets worse and worse for the people who don't want it? If this is the case, then I want a refund on the tech fees that I will be paying next semester. To me, this boils down to a basic tactic in the business world. Bait-and-Switch (which is why the requirements, ways of opting out, and what exactly is going on with TLC always change and never in the favor of the students). When will this stop? How much more money will we have to pay in order to come to school here? >:::The following added 2000/02/25 08:06 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing Hey, who ya going to believe, me or the North Wind? :) If you sign the waiver, but need a computer anyway, you can pay a fee a use a lab. I have a report from my boss, which says that in black and white, which I am bringing to the ETRPC meeting today. I guess I should fax a copy to the North Wind. What exactly are we arguing about? People who HAVE LAPTOPS CAN'T USE A GENERAL PURPOSE LAB, EITHER. The quote about waivering lab use is a red herring. Labs are going away. No need. Everybody either has a laptop or claims their own computer meets their needs. Why would anyone need a lab? Lab resources are being converted to TLC support. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 09:49 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing OK, the North Wind article is online. I think you guys are misreading. Ed clearly says you can pay a fee to use a general purpose lab. Read all about it at: http://northwind.nmu.edu/ As for the LTF, none of it is going to support the lab. Much of it will go for things like classroom projectors that everybody benefits from--whether they opt out of TLC or not. A better student web server is also proposed. The LTF is not going away. The Board of Control just approved it for next year. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 13:39 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! I wouldn't doubt that NMU wouldn't take away the fee. I was quoting directly from the North Wind Steve. What are they doing with all the old equipment from the current computer labs? I'd like to pick some of that up. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 14:40 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing Were you quoting from the North Wind when you said the fee was going up to $485? I certainly have never heard that from anybody but you. The labs are going away as part of TLC. Nobody will have "free" access. I don't know what is happening with the current old equipment. The best use for it would probably be in computer maintenance classes, because they require constant maintenance. The university is moving to TLC in a hurry. Juniors and seniors are being allowed to opt out for political reasons. Nobody is saying it is a good technical move to opt out. There are instructors reserving networked classrooms for their classes. Do you plan to lug an old lab machine to class every day? Good luck. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 15:07 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! No, actually I own my own laptop, but I bought that by choice. The quotation marks indicated where I was quoting from the NW. $485 is TLC ($385) + LTF (Learning Technology Fee--$100)--per semester. The point I was trying to make it that right now, LTF covers the present labs. In the coming months, what additional services will be provided to make up for the lack of having to provide that? I guess my overall point is that NMU is taking away options for students (a.k.a. Removing Labs, charging more to use them, denying any technological support, etc.) and still charging us the same fee. What is being added (rather than subtracted) to compensate for this? Or do I just live in a dream world to expect that? >:::The following added 2000/02/25 16:38 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing NMU is becoming a much more high-tech institution. That is what is being added. It does cost money and yes, you are dreaming if if you think otherwise. "Computer labs" on the whole, are also being added. General purpose computer labs are being replaced by departmental labs. Support for these labs is another addition that has to be counted as the cost of doing high-tech business. Internet access bandwidth is being added, and I hope you don't think that is cheap. High-tech classrooms are expensive to build and will prove expensive to maintain. Departments which have long bemoaned the amount of LTF money spent on labs will probably be dismayed to see how much of it goes to classroom projection equipment. I really can't blame you for being upset at the rising cost. Apparently you feel that none of this expense will benefit you, but keep in mind you are rejecting the benefit by taking the waiver. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 18:02 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! I agree, I am rejecting something. However that is the extortion of $385 per semester for laptops. The TLC deal today is drastically different from the deal proposed initially. When will we finally have a final answer? I know costs are expensive, but I am positive that IBM isn't getting all of this advertising for free...where is that money going? >:::The following added 2000/02/25 19:46 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing Hey, I don't answer money questions, but I do have a 1997 document stating general purpose labs would be scaled back in 1999 and dropped in 2000. That blueprint has been followed. There was some hemming and ahemming about whether to start with freshmen or just jump in with everybody. Teachers are really caught in the middle if they want to do a laptop class and they have upperclassmen signed up. The prevailing view is that since we are going to do it, we might as well get the transition over quickly: The waiver rules (which I only know about from the North Wind) say you can only get the waiver for two years. And then only if you pass 88 credits for the second year. "Good luck and try to graduate quickly" is good advice. >:::The following added 2000/02/25 19:48 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! I agree with that. Or change your major to a program that doesn't require TLC. While I think it is a good idea to integrate laptops, I think that there has been a real lack of good communication to the students. >:::The following added 2000/02/26 22:28 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody like my aura, please On a similar, but different thread, what is Northern going to be doing for printer access? The laptops don't come with printers, so are there going to be printer labs? And if so, are the drivers for these printers and access going to be available to students with waivers and their own laptops so that they can print documents on-campus? >:::The following added 2000/02/27 08:39 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing The Printers folder of NMU Thinkpads have the lab printers already installed and ready to go. That isn't going to change. There will be plenty of connections in the lab for people to plug in and print. The Thinkpad users could also submit print jobs from home via PPP or Bresnanlink and then come in and print the jobs later with their Wildcat Express cards. Did I answer your question? >:::The following added 2000/02/27 13:18 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! All except for the question of availability of drivers for non-Thinkpad using students. >:::The following added 2000/02/27 16:46 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing Yes, but I did explain the plans for printer support. I hope nobody would sign the waiver who doesn't know how to find printer drivers at http://www.hp.com/ and download, install and troubleshoot them. The ACIT LPR program is a real bear to install, too, but if you can get the Netware Client32 installed, you don't need it. Depending on what courses a waivees takes, s/he might also be spending a lot of money on software--or waiting around to borrow a TLC Thinkpad. Taking the waiver is the cyber equivalent of not buying a "required" textbook for a course. It's asking for trouble. >:::The following added 2000/02/27 20:00 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. So, just to be clear, the printers will be available to non-thinkpad users. Thank you for clearing that up Steve. I just wanted to make sure they weren't going to be on some seperate network server that was only accessable to students that had signed up for a thinkpad. >:::The following added 2000/02/28 08:35 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing With the ACIT LPR program, you can access the LRC print queues from any Windows machine on the Internet. >:::The following added 2000/02/28 14:19 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. What is the cost of this program and will there be any Tech support from northern to help if non-tlc people have questions? It seems like Northern generally goes out of it's way to get students money. If the waivees can't use the printers because they can't figure out or get the software, then Northern is going to lose out on a lot of print fees. >:::The following added 2000/02/28 14:25 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing ACIT LPR is a free program from UT Austin. Support does not exist. The Printing Services people assure me they are losing money on our printers. >:::The following added 2000/02/28 15:39 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. Good to know. Thanks. >:::The following added 2000/02/28 19:45 by ACSL000 >:: Steve Lasich Academic Computing Use any LPR program you want, point it at print.nmu.edu using HP LaserJet 5si w/Postscript and queue name=NMU_blkwhtq and the job will be waiting in the lab for the next two hours. Windows 2000 has built-in LPR support. >:::The following added 2000/02/29 13:02 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! no matter how you look at it, TLC has gradually degraded from helping students to screwing all who wish not to take part. This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard, removing access to those who grandfather out. NMU has opened themselves up to a lawsuit they will certainly lose. >:::The following added 2000/02/29 13:18 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. How do you figure there is a law suit here. By taking the waiver they are stating (in a legally binding contract) that they can meet their own computer needs. That doesn't leave a lot of room for litigation... >:::The following added 2000/02/29 14:01 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! That's true Dan. TLC is here and there won't be any litigation. >:::The following added 2000/03/03 12:53 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! Current students entered into the University before this requirement was in place. This is something the school is attempting to force on students, who came here with a certain understanding of computer labs being provided, and now that is being taken away. Hasn't anyone ever heard, "You graduate with the same requirements you entered under"? I don't recall a computer requirement in the fall of 1996. Anyone who entered before the requirement was put in place cannot be forced to adhere to it, if they have a computer or not. >:::The following added 2000/03/03 13:16 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. Unfortunately, they are refering to graduation requirements. The classes you have to take and the number of credits required are the only things that won't and can't be changed. The services provided by the school are in no way guarenteed. That would be like saying that because you had a parking permit when you started here in 1996, you are going to be given one free for the rest of your time here. You get what you pay for. If you want access to the lab, you can pay an extra fee. Check your undergrad bulletin if you're still not sure. No where in there does it say anything about them providing a computer lab... >:::The following added 2000/03/03 13:44 by PNIEDERE >:: Ekto Gamat! Acceptance only comes slowly Dan... >:::The following added 2000/03/05 18:50 by EINGLES >:: SCHVEELBACH!!!!!!!! TLC is a requirement for attendence at this university. it sucks, but it is. It was not a requirement a few years ago. >:::The following added 2000/03/06 10:34 by DHENRY >:: Coofoo Could somebody lick my aura please. And it's not a requirement for graduation. It's a policy, not a course. You don't need it to graduate. (Well, not if you're a junior or a senior anyway.) The waiver is the grandfather clause. Use it or don't, but that's your choice. What they are doing is entirely legal. Not nice, or even particularly fair, but it is legal. *** End of file
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